Author Topic: 1960's (B/W Primetime) Password (Read 3895 times)

RMF · « **on:** June 21, 2004, 05:54:53 PM »

Is there any particular reason why the primetime run of "Password" survives on videotape, while the other G/T series of that time were preserved only on kinescope?

(In particular, why would this be the case for the black-and white episodes, as I can guess why the color primetime run survives.)

TwoInchQuad · « **Reply #1 on:** June 22, 2004, 02:47:54 AM »

Chris might have better insight into this than the rest of us, but it's worth noting that-- a) it's the only one of the major G-T primetime shows to debut after the advent (and widespread use) of videotape, which means it's preservation agreeement would've actually offered the choice of tape vs. kinescope, and b) it's also believed to be the only one of those programs for which Gil Fates (who had an eagle eye on the bottom-line budget) didn't negotiate said preservation agreement. I was told Bob Stewart made the choice for "Password".

There are back-up kinescopes (probably used for affiliate time-shifting) in existence for at least some of the primetime "Password" eps, however, so there were at least **some** made.

-Kevin

AH3RD · « **Reply #2 on:** June 23, 2004, 10:31:52 AM »

[quote name=\'TwoInchQuad\' date=\'Jun 22 2004, 01:47 AM\'] There are back-up kinescopes (probably used for affiliate time-shifting) in existence for at least some of the primetime "Password" eps, however, so there were at least **some** made. [/quote]
*sigh* Wish the case was the same for the B&W CBS Daytime Password...

ilb4ever2000 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 23, 2004, 03:49:26 PM »

[quote name=\'AH3RD\' date=\'Jun 23 2004, 09:31 AM\'] *sigh* Wish the case was the same for the B&W CBS Daytime Password... [/quote]
I thought GSN had some B&W daytime episodes. Or am I getting it mixed up with TTTT (which they do have B&W daytime episodes of)?

uncamark · « **Reply #4 on:** June 23, 2004, 03:55:12 PM »

[quote name=\'ilb4ever2000\' date=\'Jun 23 2004, 02:49 PM\'][quote name=\'AH3RD\' date=\'Jun 23 2004, 09:31 AM\'] *sigh* Wish the case was the same for the B&W CBS Daytime Password... [/quote]
I thought GSN had some B&W daytime episodes. Or am I getting it mixed up with TTTT (which they do have B&W daytime episodes of)?[/quote]
It is "TTTT" (although the existence of the black-and-white episodes is interesting, in that they were kept for both "TTTT" and "Password" only because of the possibility of syndication of the repeats, which they did for "Password" and didn't for "TTTT," since in the mid-to-late 60s there was little interest in black-and-white TV in the syndication market).

In fact, the existence of "PDQ" and syndie "T or C," among other shows, is almost exclusively because of the demand of stations at that time for cheap color programming.

MrBuddwing · « **Reply #5 on:** June 26, 2004, 07:59:46 PM »

[quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'Jun 23 2004, 02:55 PM\'] In fact, the existence of "PDQ" and syndie "T or C," among other shows, is almost exclusively because of the demand of stations at that time for cheap color programming. [/quote]
Huh? Are you saying episodes of "PDQ" still exist? I thought they were all wiped.

chris319 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 26, 2004, 08:30:52 PM »

There could be 101 reasons for it, not the least of which revolves around which CBS theaters had videotape facilities at any given time. Studio 59 was likely never outfitted with videotape. Studio 50 likely had it for Sullivan. Another reason might have to do with which shows were broadcast live and which were taped five-per-day. If Password did five per day a couple of days per week in Studio 50, that might be a clue.

TwoInchQuad · « **Reply #7 on:** June 27, 2004, 02:19:19 AM »

In this case, though, I believe that's less of a factor than it might at first appear. Regardless of the theatre involved, Password, IGAS, TTTT & (occasionally) WML were **all** pre-taped, yet 40 years later, the only program to have been preserved in its original format is Password. Since it simply can't be a coincidence that almost the entire run of that show was saved, while only 2 episodes out of the entire runs of the other three programs still exist (and at least one of those was accidental), there had to be a different sort of preservation agreement in place for Password.

With regard to a couple of other points that have been brought up, the oldest surviving daytime Password I've been able to locate so far is from 9/65 (with the Smothers Brothers), and is held by UCLA.

With the daytime TTTT's though, there are about 500 surviving daytime eps, with about 375 of those in color (spring '67 to 9/68). Plenty enough to syndicate, even if the B&W ones were excluded. The reason they never did that though, was the fact that WML did so well as a 5-a-week syndie, that they were able to sell the new Garry Moore TTTT version for 1969, without having to dip into the vault for syndication (a la Password).

-Kevin

RMF · « **Reply #8 on:** June 27, 2004, 10:11:02 PM »

[quote name=\'MrBuddwing\' date=\'Jun 26 2004, 06:59 PM\'] [quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'Jun 23 2004, 02:55 PM\'] In fact, the existence of "PDQ" and syndie "T or C," among other shows, is almost exclusively because of the demand of stations at that time for cheap color programming. [/quote]
Huh? Are you saying episodes of "PDQ" still exist? I thought they were all wiped. [/quote]
Uncamark meant (or, at least, I presume that he meant) "exist" in the "why was it made" sense of the term, with no connection to current survival.

(BTW, TwoInchQuad, how was one of the TTTT Primetime tape survivals an accident?)

TwoInchQuad · « **Reply #9 on:** June 28, 2004, 02:34:59 AM »

RMF:

It was mis-filed in the archives with the daytime shows.

-Kevin

chris319 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 28, 2004, 02:58:14 AM »

Quote

they were able to sell the new Garry Moore TTTT version for 1969, without having to dip into the vault for syndication

There was also the minor consideration that Bud Collyer was dead at the end of 1969.

Let me ask this: We know that WML?, IGAS and TTTT all started as live shows in prime time. Was nighttime Password ever live?

TwoInchQuad · « **Reply #11 on:** June 28, 2004, 03:18:55 AM »

Chris:

No-- the primetime "Password" was always taped.

IGAS started taping on 1/14/59 with a two-a-night session, and WML started stockpiling summer shows with their first double-up taping on 7/12/59. At this point, I don't yet have a date for TTTT, but I'd imagine it's somewhere in the same time frame.

-Kevin

uncamark · « **Reply #12 on:** June 28, 2004, 04:35:15 PM »

[quote name=\'RMF\' date=\'Jun 27 2004, 09:11 PM\'][quote name=\'MrBuddwing\' date=\'Jun 26 2004, 06:59 PM\'] [quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'Jun 23 2004, 02:55 PM\'] In fact, the existence of "PDQ" and syndie "T or C," among other shows, is almost exclusively because of the demand of stations at that time for cheap color programming. [/quote]
Huh? Are you saying episodes of "PDQ" still exist? I thought they were all wiped. [/quote]
Uncamark meant (or, at least, I presume that he meant) "exist" in the "why was it made" sense of the term, with no connection to current survival.[/quote]
Bingo.

With everyone converting to color in the mid-60s, putting on "My Little Margie" reruns became less palatable--but no station wanted to spend a lot of money. We all know one of the reasons people do game shows are that they're cheap to produce. Hire H-Q to do "PDQ" for syndication and you have a half-hour of color daytime programming at an economical cost.

And Frederick Ziv all of a sudden had a justification for shooting "The Cisco Kid" in color on film back before there was even a color TV system.

chris319 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 28, 2004, 05:51:48 PM »

[quote name=\'TwoInchQuad\' date=\'Jun 28 2004, 12:18 AM\']No-- the primetime "Password" was always taped.

IGAS started taping on 1/14/59 with a two-a-night session, and WML started stockpiling summer shows with their first double-up taping on 7/12/59. At this point, I don't yet have a date for TTTT, but I'd imagine it's somewhere in the same time frame.[/quote]
See, the decision may have been made to do Password on videotape from the outset, to come in and tape several shows in a single taping day and forget about doing a live show. The other G-T shows on CBS started out live and may have, through inertia, continued the practice of preserving only the kinescopes and recycled the tape stock when they began doubling up on shows. Password likely taped more than just two shows in a taping day.

The next question is, how many nighttime Password eps are on kinescope? We had one kinescope in the office way back when. I don't know why we had it or what it was doing there.

TwoInchQuad · « **Reply #14 on:** June 28, 2004, 07:32:22 PM »

I know of at least three primetime "Password" kinnies right off the top of my head, but I'm sure there must be more out there...

-Kevin